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 pasting outside of theWord and including citation info 
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Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:34 am
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Post pasting outside of theWord and including citation info
Is is possible to copy a few paragraphs from a book within theWord, and then paste this content to an external document, such as an MS Word .doc file, and have the pasted information include citation information (author, title, publisher, etc.) about the source?


Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:57 pm
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Post Re: pasting outside of theWord and including citation info
or better - an option to do so! (meaning I don't have to have it, if I don't want it....)

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Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:31 pm
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Post Re: pasting outside of theWord and including citation info
well, the necessary tags are broken down


Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:58 pm
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Post Re: pasting outside of theWord and including citation info
David,

There is a neat little tool that I use for theWord citations called Zotero. You can download it free. Make sure you download Zotero stand alone and not the browser plug in. When it is installed and you go to a site like google books, you will see an icon (a little blue book) in the right hand side of your address bar. Here are some simple steps to take:

1. Copy a small portion of the book and go to books.google.com and paste that into the search. It will return the results with the name and the page number(s). Press the little blue book icon and it will download the information for you directly to Zotero. IMPORTANT. MAKE SURE ZOTERO IS RUNNING BEFORE PRESSING THE ICON. OTHERWISE IT WON'T WORK

2. Go back to Zotero and you should see it in the list.

3. Right click on the reference and choose 'Create bibliography from item.'

4. Choose which style you prefer.

5. Add a footnote/endnote to the text and paste the reference in. You will have to supply the page number manually.

It takes a little effort but it works. I use it all the time.


Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:11 am
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Post Re: pasting outside of theWord and including citation info
I do not know much about Zotero, but it sounds to me like a very indirect method of hunting down publication information, title by title, when, all the while (at least theoretically), this information is already embedded in the module properties and should really be available instantly.

Consequently, in the long run, I think TheWord should include the option of automatically appending publication information, whenever copying and pasting text from any bookview window.

Although I had never seen this option in other Bible-study programs, I immediately noticed the need for the feature, when I began using TheWord, years ago, because it is only natural to cite the source when writing papers, or preparing sermons, and ideally, it should be somewhat automatic. I have been saving my suggestions on that issue for over three years now, until today.

As we all know, the main problem is that many module creators are so zealous about getting the material out, that they do not bother to include the publication information to begin with, so some of the modules end up without much information to work with. TheWord makes it easy for them to neglect that issue, because TheWord allows the module to be created without requiring that information.

My proposal for circumventing that problem is this:

1) Every module creator should be "forced" by the program, to include the complete publication data, by means of several independent "essential fields" in the "properties" tab, before he is allowed to finalize his module for distribution.

In other words, rather than just allow the creator to type in a title without the author, in whichever field he thought it would look the best, he would essentially have to fill in all fields of the current layout before the program would allow him to finalize the module for publication. Even if he should make a few mistakes, at least he would make a conscious effor to fill in every field.

Having said that, I am aware that there are situations where I make a quick module for personal use, with personal notes, which I may even intend to discard at a later date, or else use it perpetually without ever sharing it. That option should remain available somehow.

Perhaps the solution, then, is a two-step approach to module preparation.

In other words, perhaps any module should be creatable at the first level without requiring any publication data other than a title and abbreviation. However, TheWord should require a second step before the module can be "finalized" and distributed, which would require that all of those "essential fields" be filled in, in the "properties" tab.

In the "settings/actions" tab, below, where it says "select an option to perform and click 'execute,'" perhaps that should become an essential step, disabled until those essential fields on the "properties" tab were first filled in, of course, with all the necessary reminders and instructions to the module creator. Otherwise, some other important part of the module should be disabled until the "essential fields" are filled in completely. This would lead to more accountability regarding publication data.

(I would like to hear everyone's additional ideas about how a two-step module-preparation could be implemented without sacrificing the utility of a module for one's own personal use in the meantime. In the worst case, I suppose that TW could just flash a nasty reminder to the creator, in red type, that would say, "This module is not ready for distribution. Before continuing, please complete the following fields in the 'properties' tab")

Aside from this issue, my other suggestions for implementing a simple automatic academic citation feature are these:

2. Greater accuracy could be encouraged by requiring the creator to include his full name in the appropriate field, rather than allowing him to hide behind a screen name.

He would likely double-check his publication details, knowing that people would hold him responsible, as they would see his name every time they looked to the properties window. Otherwise, even by using a screen name, people may recognize him from the forum, and would still be able to contact him about any errors, and the risk of such embarassment would encourage the module creator to double-check his information and spelling.

3) TheWord should convert all "essential field" text to "title case" automatically, so that anything copied from those fields would already be closer to an ideal format (e.g., author's full name, book's full title, etc.)

4) The creator should be presented with a drop-down menu (within the properties tab) whereby he could select whether the work was a dictionary, encyclopedia, magazine article, internet resource, multi-volume work, single-volume work, audio transcript, etc., so that his selection would determine which subsequent fields were essential and which were not.

For example, if he selected "multi-volume work," he would be required to type in a volume number somewhere below, in another field, whereas, if he selected "single-volume," he would not; if he selected "internet resource," he would be required to paste in the complete web address, but if he selected "commentary," he would not.

6) The "essential fields" should then be used as the source for TheWord to copy from automatically, whenever text was copied from any topic within the module.

Rather than allow all the publication information to be typed into only one field (risking the possibility of the creator's excluding important details there), TheWord should copy the information from all "esential fields" at once, and assemble those bits of information into one correctly-formatted academic citation (or close to it), before allowing it to be pasted. It should do this only when such a feature was invoked, of course, as there will be occasions where citation is undesired.

6) Copying the citation should be optional, in the form of a right-click context menu item called "Copy selected text with publication information appended".

This menu item would appear in the menu any time that any text was selected from any bookview window at any time, invoking the process of accumulating and assembling the data from those "essential fields" into one complete academic citation, such as the Turabian format.

7) Chapter titles should be copied simultaneously during this process, copied directly from the "topic-tree" item that corresponds to whatever window happens to be in view.

In other words, by selecting text in the right-hand pane, and by selecting the context menu item suggested above, TW would not only seek the publication info from the module properties, but would also copy and append whatever the topic-tree showed as the chapter title.

The assumption here is that the selected topic bears the name of the chapter itself. That way, by copying the topic-tree item by name, you will autmatically have the chapter name loaded into memory for appending to the other publication data.

If, however, the selected topic-tree item is merely a sub-node to some other item, and does not correspond to a chapter as such, perhaps TW should copy only the root-level topic name in every case, as this usually reflects more correctly what the chapter title is than the sub-nodes do.

For example, in Chafer's Systematic Theology, some of the subtopic subnodes are not chapters but merely section headings, or paragraph headings. Copying those individually into memory would do no good, as they present the name of the section, but not the name of the chapter, which is really more important than the name of the section. Consequently, I say that TW has a better chance of "guessing" the correct chapter name if it copies the topic item at the root level each time.

I would also suggest that TW generate the prefix "Chapter entitled..." to include as a part of the entire process.

However, perhaps it would be even better yet, to copy not only the chapter title but whatever other sections or headings were included in the topic tree that might point to that same page of text, as a sort of "path." In other words, it would end up including the root node, and all sub-nodes required to reach the text in view. (e.g., Volume Five: Christology - Christology - Chapter I. the Preincarnate Christ the Son of God - I. The Deity of Christ) but this is in addition to all the publication data. The user could choose to omit whichever part he found to be unnecessary.

These were just some thoughts that I had been saving for three years now.

Incidentally, this whole subject has been discussed on the eSword forum as an urgent need for that program as well. Meanwhile, I found the same discussion on the TW forum, too, introduced seven years ago, here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2246&hilit=citation)

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I'm an Independent Baptist running TheWord portable v 5.0.0.1481 from an external 500GB hard drive with over 1,900 modules installed and loaded in my current module set. I'm using 32-bit Vista Ultimate SP1 with a 2.7gHz processor and 4GB RAM.
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Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:50 am
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Post Re: pasting outside of theWord and including citation info
Well said Erik, good thoughts.
My only addition would be that this stuff should NOT be obligatory for module authors. This would put a burden for authors that are not real 'pros'
Costas


Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:02 am
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Post Re: pasting outside of theWord and including citation info
Yes, you are probably right. Freedom is a good thing.

I think that, up until now, one of the main problems is that TW does not even remind the module creator to include the publication data.

Maybe you could allow the responsible user an option in the general preferences, to disallow module finalizing without first filling in all the publication fields. He could disable the option when he wanted. This could be the new default setting, by the way.

I suppose that oftentimes the creator fully intends to input that information before sharing his module online, but never gets around to it, and never gets a warning message or other reminder, either. When he sees that he already has a complete title containing the author's name, in the main field, he forgets to check the other fields to add additional information, before finalizing the module, including his own name or the version number. I have lots of modules of version 0.0, for this reason.

Along the lines of your idea of voluntary disclosure, it might be nice to confront the module creator with a warning message in red type--such as during the theoretical "second step" of module preparation--regarding why it is so important that he include the publication information not only in his title page, but in the appropriate fields of the "properties" tab. Something like this would be good:

WARNING:

Once you share this module online, it will be in the hands of thousands of TheWord users for all of posterity, without any likelihood of their ever acquiring future revisions. Consequently, if you truly want to be a blessing to the entire Christian and academic community, you will not upload an incomplete module, but will rather fill in the spaces found in the "properties" tab, with all of the original publication data. This is important for the following reasons:

1. Some authors will not allow us to use their material as a module without including all the original publication data inside. You could really cause trouble for us by failing to comply with their request.

2. In every case, including the publication data helps us to recognize, respect, and show our appreciation to authors who have spent hundreds of hours--if not years--writing and revising the original text that you are now formatting for us, not to mention, to their publisher.

3. If you include the publication data in your module, those of us who use your module can, in turn, cite that information in our own writings and sermons, and thereby prove to our own readers that we have done thorough research. We can include complete footnotes and bibliographies, for example.

4. Having that publication data available to us, to quote in our own writings, helps us to be transparent, to avoid accidental plagiarism, and to be more accountable for what we write. Many users of TheWord will not take your module seriously, and will not use it or recommend it to others, if they see that you did not bother to include the publication data, as the legal risks involved in professional publications would be too great.

5. Having the publication data available to us, to quote in our own writings, provides a trail by which our own readers can more easily locate your module online for downloading, or else, check the original source of our quotations. It also allows the readers to follow the path of our research, to see what contributions may have been made to the study before we even presented our own conclusions.

6. Having that publication data available to us, to quote, can help Christian writers to share the blame, when their conclusions based on works cited, are wrong. Otherwise, it can help us to prove that certain publications are faulty to begin with.

7. Plans are underway to allow users of a future revision of TheWord to quickly copy and paste all publication data instantly and automatically from any bookview module. However, if you do not put that publication information into the correct spaces to begin with, the feature will not work correctly.


**My list of seven reaons for including publication data for academic citation, is based loosely on the articles listed below.
http://library.uvm.edu/guides/citation/why.php
http://libguides.mit.edu/citing
https://falconediting.com/en/blog/6-rea ... en-writing
http://libguides.usask.ca/citation/whycite
http://www.concordia.ca/students/academ ... grity.html
https://www.qub.ac.uk/cite2write/harvard.pdf
http://www.ibo.org/globalassets/digital ... ing-en.pdf
http://lib.dmu.edu/su/ethicaldoc/whycite

By the way, it goes without saying that all of my comments and suggestions on this forum may always be used in your program, whether paraphrased or verbatim, freely and without any obligation expressed or implied, so feel free to quote my seven points, too, for example, when you prepare your program to include automatic citation and other things.

Incidentally, I recommend the Turabian citation style (University of Chicago)

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I'm an Independent Baptist running TheWord portable v 5.0.0.1481 from an external 500GB hard drive with over 1,900 modules installed and loaded in my current module set. I'm using 32-bit Vista Ultimate SP1 with a 2.7gHz processor and 4GB RAM.
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Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:44 pm
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Post Re: pasting outside of theWord and including citation info
The easier we make this for Costas, the sooner he will be able to implement the new citation feature in his program. Let's provide all the information to him that we can, as we come across it, so that he will not have to do so much research on his own.

Below are miscellaneous links to tips on the three main standard formats:

Chicago/Turabian style
Detailed explanation
(Click on topic in table of contents here: http://www.bibme.org/citation-guide/chicago/ )
Univ Chicago: http://www.press.uchicago.edu/books/tur ... guide.html
Univ Wisconsin Intro
http://writing.wisc.edu/Handbook/DocChicago.html
PDF:
http://writing.wisc.edu/Handbook/PDF/ch ... ne2013.pdf

APA style
Detailed explanation
http://www.bibme.org/citation-guide/apa/
Other Intro
http://writing.wisc.edu/Handbook/DocAPA.html
PDF
http://writing.wisc.edu/Handbook/PDF/AP ... eb2013.pdf

MLA style
Detailed explanation
http://www.bibme.org/citation-guide/mla/
Other Intro
http://writing.wisc.edu/Handbook/DocMLA.html (the PDF is under construction)

As a reminder, Bobby Bosler posted links on a separate thread. I have included them below for the sake of consolidating the information:

These are the top three styles in academic citation of which I am aware. I am primarily familiar with Turabian, however, since that is the style my institution of higher learning uses.

Turabian
Here is a link to a quick citation guide from Kate L. Turabian (from which the style got the name of Turabian).
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/books/tur ... guide.html
She has written a book detailing just about everything regarding citations, dissertations, paper writing, etc. in the Turabian style. The name of her books is A Manual for Writers of Research Papers, Theses, and Dissertations, Seventh Edition: Chicago Style for Students and Researchers.

MLA
Here is a quick refence guide in the MLA (Modern Language Association) style.
http://www.ipsd.org/Uploads/DEC_Seconda ... erence.pdf
The Handbook for this style is MLA Handbook for Writers of Research Papers by Joseph Gibaldi.

APA
Here is a quick reference guide in the APA (American Psychological Association) style.
http://www.ipsd.org/Uploads/DEC_Seconda ... erence.pdf
The handbook for this style is Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association


(Quoted from his thread here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2246 )

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I'm an Independent Baptist running TheWord portable v 5.0.0.1481 from an external 500GB hard drive with over 1,900 modules installed and loaded in my current module set. I'm using 32-bit Vista Ultimate SP1 with a 2.7gHz processor and 4GB RAM.
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Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:28 pm
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Post Re: pasting outside of theWord and including citation info
I'm more for all the information being included as an option in a paste and leaving the formatting style such as Turabin, MLA, APA up to the user. I have used MLA and Turabian and perhaps APA as well and they are not all the same and can change overtime.

Formatting styles can be quite in depth depending on book, article, mutliple authors, editors, etc. It would definitely be nice but it could take awhile. Perhaps a style file that can be edited directly to include styles based on module types if included by the original module creator.

Perhaps information at the start and then later on these formatting styles could be added?


Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:29 pm
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Post Re: pasting outside of theWord and including citation info
Excellent observation, Jonathan!

In fact, I cannot believe that I did not see that obvious point, myself: namely, that there is no reason for Costas to have to worry about any these citation formats whatsoever, as long as he just makes TheWord copy and transfer the necessary publication information to the clipboard, when bookview text is copied. He should just leave the citation format to the user, as you suggest.

Now I feel like a real fool for even posting the links above.

And, some data would not even be necessary: such as language, version number, version date, module creator, etc.

However, I think that Costas needs to ADD a few fields to the current "Properties" window, as some of the details are considered essential.

Please, everyone, share your suggestions here regarding which fields are still needed:

1. City and state of publication
2. Year of publication, copyright year (rather than "date of publication") this would clarify the meaning to the module creator, who might otherwise go looking around for a date and month when ordinarily the year alone is sufficient.
3. Number of volumes represented
4. Editor (separate from author)
5. Type of publication (e.g., magazine, multi-volume work, single-volume book, website, etc.)
6. Edition, revision number, etc.
7. Other contributors named on title page
Other ideas ???

In fact, I was thinking that, rather than copy text from the bookview window and APPEND the publication data to the clipboard simultaneously, it might be easier to provide this feature as a separate process altogether, invoked by the right click and selection of an item from the context menu, such as "copy publication data to clipboard."

Although oftentimes I would rather not go back and forth, and would rather have all the information together each time, separated only by a space between the text and the publication data.

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I'm an Independent Baptist running TheWord portable v 5.0.0.1481 from an external 500GB hard drive with over 1,900 modules installed and loaded in my current module set. I'm using 32-bit Vista Ultimate SP1 with a 2.7gHz processor and 4GB RAM.
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Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:29 am
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Post Re: pasting outside of theWord and including citation info
Those links could be useful to include as a way of helps for the end user. I like your suggestions. Thank you for all you've done on the forum.


Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:43 pm
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Post Re: pasting outside of theWord and including citation info
Thank you, Jonathan.

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I'm an Independent Baptist running TheWord portable v 5.0.0.1481 from an external 500GB hard drive with over 1,900 modules installed and loaded in my current module set. I'm using 32-bit Vista Ultimate SP1 with a 2.7gHz processor and 4GB RAM.
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Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:46 am
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