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 Additional cross references for everyone 
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Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:24 pm
Posts: 418
Post Additional cross references for everyone
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Hello, Costas.

I am not sure if everyone is aware that, regardless of the Bible translation that he uses in your program, he can have more cross references simply by downloading and installing other Bible modules (provided that they include embedded cross references).

Of course, I know that they already understand that, after installing many modules, if certain cross-references suddenly become available as an option to select in "Bible view options," then selecting them will make them appear in Bible view. That part is clear. My point is that the users may not know that they can go searching online for other modules that contain embedded cross-references, and that installing them will make them appear as an additional option.

I never use the NASB, for example, but I bought it from your website, as I recall, simply to have the additional cross-references to appear on the screen when using the KJV.

I've just noticed that the NIV 2011 includes 100,000 cross-references. Although I never use the NIV, I may buy it only for the cross-references.

On the other hand, users who don't want to buy anything new, who would never otherwise think of using the Holman Christian Standard Bible® for their daily reading or Bible study, would be sure to download it and install it, just for the simple fact that it includes lots of extra cross-references, and for the fact that it is a free download.

Of course, the user has to be aware that only by installing such modules is not necessarily enough, as he must be sure to keep the module "open" in the background, in a Bibleview tab, in order for the cross-references to be active. (I think that is how it works)

Anyway, my suggestion here is simply this: while your download page already explains in the long descriptions, whether the module in question contains cross-references, it might be nice to post a brief reminder beside each applicable Bible module, to say something like, "Installing this module will automatically increase the number of cross-references available for display in TheWord, regardless of the Bible translation displayed." In this way, people will download some of them, not for the text, but only for the cross-references. It might even increase sales.

Sure. Advanced users are already aware of this, but I am sure that there are many thousands of ordinary users who are not, and will be delighted to see how easily they can increase the number of cross-references displayed, simply by installing these other modules. (Perhaps someone will comment to that effect, that he was unaware of this option until reading this post.)

Of course, it might be nice to have a simple summary online of which Bible modules include cross-references, and which do not, including all foreign-language modules. For examle, the NET Bible® - New English Translation (NET): does it include any cross-references? The description on your download page makes no mention of them. http://www.theword.net/index.php?downlo ... &l=english How about the NET "Limited-notes Edition?" No mention there, either.

However, there is perhaps a need for someone to identify for us where the overlap is among all these cross-references, so that we don't end up downloading and displaying modules with two sets of the same cross-reference collection at the same time (e.g., NASB77 + NASB 95. Where the overlap is might be somewhat obvious to some, but not to others, as in the next example.)

By installing the NASB one automatically has supposedly 93,000 cross-references included. By installing the Spanish module, "La Biblia de las Americas" (LBLA), he will automatically have the same 93,000 cross-references duplicated, as they come from the same Lockman Foundation. There is no way to know that these are the same cross-references, except for the coincidentally identical number, supported by the fact that they both come from Lockman. It would be nice if someone could post a complete list of current modules available with cross-references, perhaps in table format, identifying not only which modules included the cross-references, but also where the overlap was.

Hey, by the way, I wonder if you can make arrangements with the publishers of these Bibles, to sell a "references-only" version for each translation, at half the regular price, for example, containing no Bible text but ONLY the cross-references? That would be a more inexpensive alternative for interested parties. It was just a thought.

[i]( EDIT: This post was intended as more of a suggestion to the programmer, than as general information to all users. Nevertheless, as "Jeff" pointed out below, for those users who are interested, but unaware of other resources not already mentioned above, do not forget that the Enhanced Treasury of Scripture Knowledge is the first (free) module that should be considered whenever the goal is to have more cross-references. For a great description and download link, see Dr. Dave Thomason's wonderful website: http://www.doctordavet.com/tskinline.html )[/i]
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I'm an Independent Baptist running TheWord portable v 5.0.0.1481 from an external 500GB hard drive with over 1,900 modules installed and loaded in my current module set. I'm using 32-bit Vista Ultimate SP1 with a 2.7gHz processor and 4GB RAM.
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Last edited by ErikJon on Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:16 am
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Post Re: Additional cross references for everyone
The cross references for the TSK, Treasury of Scripture Knowledge, is also available for inline use from Doctor Dave T's site: http://www.doctordavet.com/tskinline.html Claims 340,000 cross references.

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Jeff


Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:11 am
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Post Re: Additional cross references for everyone
Thanks for the shout out, Jeff. JPG graciously built the module and allowed its distribution via my website. It is an excellent module. Anyone who studies their Bible - no matter what version is used - will greatly profit from its use.

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Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:35 am
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Post Re: Additional cross references for everyone
Dave I sent you an update (just a couple of fixes) to the file now at v1.2
Can you post back here when you have the 1.2 in place.

Note, that with v4+ of theWord, users can just drag n drop the zip file into the Installer dialog to put the file in the nominal place for that installation of the program.

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Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:59 pm
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Post Re: Additional cross references for everyone
Version 1.2 is now posted at the site. Thanks so much, Jon.

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Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:14 pm
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Post Re: Additional cross references for everyone
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My apologies for not mentioning the TSKe in my original post. I had deliberately avoided the subject so as not to complicate the issue a bit, for the sake of focusing on the issue of using other Bible texts for the sake of their cross-references alone, and including the examples mentioned.

I am certainly aware of the TSKe (not 1.2), and grateful to JG and Dr.DaveT for their effort in preparing that module for us.

Perhaps I should edit my original post to mention the TSKe. Maybe I should re-vamp the whole post altogether, to make it more of an informational post to all users, rather than a suggestion to Costas. Decisions, decisions.
.

_________________
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I'm an Independent Baptist running TheWord portable v 5.0.0.1481 from an external 500GB hard drive with over 1,900 modules installed and loaded in my current module set. I'm using 32-bit Vista Ultimate SP1 with a 2.7gHz processor and 4GB RAM.
.


Last edited by ErikJon on Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:32 pm
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Post Re: Additional cross references for everyone
Thanks Jon and Dave!



(Just remember the hotkey 'x' to turn the cross references on and off when you just want to read the text.)

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Jeff


Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:36 pm
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Post Re: Additional cross references for everyone
The above mentioned file is just xrefs that show in the Bible view.

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OS for testing; Windows 10
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Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:37 pm
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Post Re: Additional cross references for everyone
Erik,
thanks for the suggestion. Jeff, Dave and Jon gave good answers.
I believe that people that are interested in more cross-references are usually advanced users. Most 'ordinary' users don't usually know how to turn off the default ones :)
Costas


Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:15 pm
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Post Re: Additional cross references for everyone
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Judging from the remarks on this post, I must conclude that some users do not yet understand the value of having additional cross-references to use for their research. That is not a problem for me, but for those who do, I offer the following updates as of April, 2016:

I recently bought and installed several TW modules, and downloaded other free modules, and to my surprise, some of them came with new cross-reference sets of their own. Among those I installed were these:

Hebraic Roots Bible
Greek Bible text of the Novum Testamentum Graece, 28th edition (Nestle Aland)
Greek New Testament, UBS, 4th revised edition


If I open my "Bible view options" window, and select the section called "Footnotes and Cross-references" I now find the cross-reference sets listed below, available for selecting and activating, each of which ADDS to the corpus of cross references available to me during my studies:

Default Cross-references
FruchtenbaumOTRev
My Popup References (for Transl
TSKe1.2 Xrefs
ESV
NKJ
HOL
NASB
HRB2012


The "HRB2012" set was installed with the Hebraic Roots Bible, but I cannot tell which of the two original-language modules installed for me the set called "FruchtenbaumOTRev" (Perhaps Nestle-Aland. Perhaps someone would like to share that information?)

Besides that, I don't know where the "My Popup References" came from (especially since the rest of the text in the title is out of view).

The source of the other modules is self-explanatory. Note the TSKe that the others mentioned above in this post.

Reminder: Even though I may NEVER use some of these modules, TheWord requires me to keep them open in Bibleview, just to access the cross-references within the Bible texts that I DO use. For example, if I am using the KJV only, I must keep the "Hebraic Roots Bible" text module selected in the "preferences" and the corresponding tab, open in Bibleview, just to use those cross-references with the KJV. Not a big deal, but it would be nice to simplify the tab clutter by eliminating those modules that I rarely use on their own.

Nowadays my cross-references, when viewed, typically look like those in the screenshot below.


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_________________
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I'm an Independent Baptist running TheWord portable v 5.0.0.1481 from an external 500GB hard drive with over 1,900 modules installed and loaded in my current module set. I'm using 32-bit Vista Ultimate SP1 with a 2.7gHz processor and 4GB RAM.
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Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:43 pm
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Post Re: Additional cross references for everyone
ErikJon wrote:
.

Reminder: Even though I may NEVER use some of these modules, TheWord requires me to keep them open in Bibleview, just to access the cross-references within the Bible texts that I DO use. For example, if I am using the KJV only, I must keep the "Hebraic Roots Bible" text module selected in the "preferences" and the corresponding tab, open in Bibleview, just to use those cross-references with the KJV. Not a big deal, but it would be nice to simplify the tab clutter by eliminating those modules that I rarely use on their own.
Go to Bible View Options, below the box where you select xref sets click Organize, click on New, follow the steps and under step 2 select Create a New Set as a Copy of the Following and select the set.

Then you should be able to hide the Bible text but still use the cross references. I guess you could even delete the Bible module as you'll be using a user copy of the cross references and not the Bible module itself.

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Jeff


Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:40 pm
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Post Re: Additional cross references for everyone
I made the "FruchtenbaumOTRev" for Dave. It is listed among the MySword modules on his site.
http://www.doctordavet.com/myswordmodules.html

I was in the process of mentioning what Jeff pointed you to...

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Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:59 pm
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Post Re: Additional cross references for everyone
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Wonderful! TheWord is full of nice little surprises like that. Thanks for the tip, gentlemen.

And thanks for the FruchtenbaumOTRev, Jon.

Oops. Jeff, you said, "...follow the steps and under step 2 select Create a New Set as a Copy of the Following and select the set." I don't know which set I am supposed to select. My drop-down menu just gives me a list of all the sets individually.
.

_________________
.
I'm an Independent Baptist running TheWord portable v 5.0.0.1481 from an external 500GB hard drive with over 1,900 modules installed and loaded in my current module set. I'm using 32-bit Vista Ultimate SP1 with a 2.7gHz processor and 4GB RAM.
.


Sun May 01, 2016 5:00 am
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Posts: 318
Post Re: Additional cross references for everyone
ErikJon wrote:
.
Wonderful! TheWord is full of nice little surprises like that. Thanks for the tip, gentlemen.

And thanks for the FruchtenbaumOTRev, Jon.

Oops. Jeff, you said, "...follow the steps and under step 2 select Create a New Set as a Copy of the Following and select the set." I don't know which set I am supposed to select. My drop-down menu just gives me a list of all the sets individually.
.

I'm guessing you're wanting to make copies of all the sets you have available from your modules, such as
ESV
NKJ
HOL
NASB
HRB2012
Whatever you don't already have a user xref module for.

So it would take more than one step to save each one as a users xref file. You can also make an empty file to store your own cross references in as you come across some in your own studies if you're not already.

You can also combine xrefs lists also by clicking Organize from the main screen, selecting a user list, and selecting Copy From. That may be quicker if you have a user set you want to add them all to, but not if you want to still be able to select each set separately depending on what you're working on.

You may want to try testing to be sure you get what you want. It's been a while since I created my own set, or added other sets, so I had to go back and try to remember. If you mess up you should be able to delete the set and try again, the original sets that came with the modules won't be affected. Another trick may be to use the explore button to see the statistics for the modules. I'm sure Jon can help if we get stuck or if he knows a better way than I'm describing.

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Sun May 01, 2016 6:21 am
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Post Re: Additional cross references for everyone
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O.K. Thanks, Jeff. I'll give that a try. I appreciate your taking the time to explain it to me.
.

_________________
.
I'm an Independent Baptist running TheWord portable v 5.0.0.1481 from an external 500GB hard drive with over 1,900 modules installed and loaded in my current module set. I'm using 32-bit Vista Ultimate SP1 with a 2.7gHz processor and 4GB RAM.
.


Mon May 02, 2016 5:24 am
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