TW uses wrong font for new user modules

[ErikJon]

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Am I doing something wrong? I had changed my preferences for all Bible-view and Book-view windows, to use Segoe UI, for a few months. Then I decided to try a font called Zurich. Days later, when I create a "new user module" the font used automatically is Segoe UI. What happened? Also, every new topic within the module uses Segoe UI.
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[JG]

The default fonts will effect the rendering of non-user module text, unless it is overridden in the properties of the module.
When you make a new user module, just set the font for the first topic and all the others should follow suit.

[ErikJon]

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Thank you, Jon, but I tried that.

Each "new topic" that I begin, reverts to the old Segoe UI font, even though I am using Zurich in the first topic.

But, if I go to the "settings/actions" tab in the module properties window, I can permanently adjust the font, below , where it says "use the default book view fonts". Nevertheless, it will not allow this unless I deselect the "user module can be edited" option, up top.

In fact, I had been meaning to complain about that for two years now. Allow me to copy and paste my notes from long ago, below:

Namely, I have noticed that, oftentimes, whenever I convert a book module into a user module, using the "module properties" window, the module no longer uses my default font. If I convert it back, to an uneditable module, my default font is restored. All of this happens regardless of whether I have the check-box selected in the "settings/actions" tab, called "Use the default book view fonts."

My conclusion, then, was to ask you to please allow TW to override any font settings independently of the user-module status, in order to keep all book-view modules viewable with my own, more legible choice for the default book-view font. In other words, I want to use my preferred font, regardless of what the status of the module may be, and regardless of what font was used in designing the module.

Why are there so many modules out there that are set as "user modules" on the "settings-actions" tab, with the option of "use the default book view fonts" selected, and yet they do not employ the default book-view fonts that I have selected? What I have to do, each time, to make the font display properly, is to un-check the "user module" box, and close the "properties" window. At that point, however, I can no longer edit the module without going back to the properties, each time.

You would not believe it, but this phenomenon works both ways. When "user module" is unchecked in other modules, and the module is not displaying my selected font, if I check "user module" and close the window, the module displays the font correctly; on the other hand, if "user module" is checked, but the module is not displaying the font correctly accodring to my preferences, I simply un-check "user module," close the window, and then the module displays the font properly.

What is going on here?

Incidentally, this problem is not tied to any one font, as I have experienced the same phenomenon when I was using other fonts in TheWord.

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[JG]

Thanks for your thoughts.

I don't see an issue. I believe I have it working as designed.


@Costas, maybe I missed something here.

[therapon]

Jon, you said "The default fonts will effect the rendering of non-user module text, unless it is overridden in the properties of the module." Under present design, if the font properties embedded in the module rank higher than the check-box, selection to use default fonts should not be allowed once overridden in the module. Unless, of course, the user can have the option to override the override!

Thanks.
therapon

[JG]

I think there should be a note on the Preferences dialog, to say that the font defaults set there only are applied to non-user modules.

The Properties dialog is clear enough. "Default fonts will be applied only to 'non-user modules' "
If there is a special font used in the module that you don't want overridden, then there is the option below, to "Use the fonts that are defined in the module" or "Use the default Book View fonts + Do not substitute the following fonts.

When you change the module to "User module" mode, to edit it then it is totally under user control what fonts are used in each topic.

Properties_settings.png (21.32 KiB) Viewed 5239 times

[ErikJon]

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By the way, today I opened a third Bible-view window, and my default font was not used to display the Bible text. Instead, Segoe UI was used.

I am not a programmer, but it looks to me like one of the former preferences is simply "stuck" in the system; if I had used Times previously, everything would probably be displaying Times now.

Incidentally, all my Bible texts in the "Bible Texts" tab of the "preferences" shows that the default font is supposed to be used for all Bible modules (except for the Gentium and Cardo modules).

[JG]

This is correct behaviour for a Bible view that is created from the main menu. Each Bible view has its own preferences. If you have set different default font preferences in a Bible view, and want to use those for a new Bible view, then you need to use the new Bible view icon in that view (from the viewer icons at left of Bible view). The default font used when you create a new Bible view will depend on the operating system you are on.

[ErikJon]

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O.K. Thanks for pointing that out.
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[JG]

I have noted some problem with commentary modules for Costas to verify.

[csterg]

I have talked about this behavior in the past. Unfortunately, what is actually a very powerful feature, appears as a bug - let me write some lines again that will help.

The Book view of theWord works in 2 ways (like you have 2 programs):

PROGRAM 1: A READ ONLY VIEWER
In that mode, you cannot make changes to a module, you only read, like in acrobat reader. You basically read in the font the author decided would be the best. Yet, theWord allows you (the end user) to override the original author's preference and use your own favorite font! So, even if the author used Arial to create his module, you can use Segoe UI to read your books because you like it most! So, as a READER, theWord allows you to read the books using your preferred font.

PROGRAM 2: AN EDITOR LIKE MS WORD
In that mode, you can write documents, like you do in MS Word. This is a mode that is used by authors. This is the mode that you use when you write your own notes. There is no 'default font' here, in that mode this is an editor! Like in MS Word, each topic is a different document: but you don't have to open/save files, theWord does all this for you! But while you edit the document (e.g. change font name, size, colors, paragraphs, tables, etc), theWord cannot at the same time apply the edits you do AND apply default values to your text: this would be inconsistent! Now, if you are using the EDITOR to READ your books and you expect theWord to apply default fonts, then you are using the wrong PROGRAM/MODE. It's like you are writing a report in MS Word, you select to use Tahoma font and you complain that MS Word did not use Segoe UI.

theWord is the only program that gives you the full power to read and edit the modules in the same area! Of course, the whole procedure could be more awkward, for example a new window could be used to 'open' a document to edit and then 'save' it... But then it wouldn't be as powerful as it currently is.

So, a module in 'user mode', means it can be edited: this means that you the topic/content appears as the author wrote it, with the fonts that the author used: theWord cannot change these fonts at that moment, because you are actually editing the content. Only in 'non user mode' (e.g. read-only) can theWord apply different fonts.

Costas

PS CTRL+SHIFT+U switch between the 2 modes.

[ErikJon]

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Yes, now I think I understand a little better. Thank you for taking the time to explain it.

Thanks also for the time-saving keyboard shortcut.

I think we may possibly be overlapping two threads at once here, but I am not complaining.

I think the bottom line is, as Jon mentioned, the user's presumption that the "font preferences" will affect all user and non-user modules in the same way. As he said, perhaps there should be a note on the Preferences dialog, and not only in the Module Properties, to say that the font defaults set there only are applied to non-user modules. At least this would allay some of the confusion, for the time being.

No need to respond to this post. Thanks again.

[paul1149]

Thanks, Costas. That was a good explanation.

I recently discovered this behavior because in Linux, under Wine many Windows fonts do not render well. So I have been spending time converting to such as Droid Sans as I encounter hard to read text.

I wish there were a function by which the user could perform a font substitution on user modules. As I envision it, it would be a punctiliar function that wouldn't interfere with already existing theWord font dynamics.

[ErikJon]

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You can say that again.

In fact, I wish that TheWord would allow global reformatting for any user module. This is because, while some users have time only to prepare a module with basic text formatting, others of us have typographical experience that would easily allow us to re-format and improve the legibility and utility of those modules. The problem is that, as TheWord stands right now, many minor changes require lots of time.

For example, let's say that we had a commentary module with comments only available at the "chapter level" (such as the popular Guzik module). Let's say we wanted to remove all the excessive indentation found in it, in order to make it useful in the narrow-window layout (in which each window occupies one third of the screen space vertically). Just to perform that one function, I would have to open 969 different chapter windows individually, select the text in each, click the "shift to the left" icon a few times, and close the window. While each operation is relatively simple, to perform it 969 times would require at least 969 minutes perhaps (16 hours). Even if it took half the time, 8 hours is a lot of valuable time just to improve one module. God forbid that we should improve other aspects of the same text, such as the leading (interlinear spacing) or the spacing between paragraphs, as this would require another 8-16 hours.

ON THE OTHER HAND, if TheWord offered a function allowing the entire commentary text to be selected at once somehow, and each modification to be applied globally to that text, all modifications combined could be accomplished in just a few minutes. We would make much faster progress in the field of enlarging and improving the corpus of TW user modules.

I think that, if Costas is interested in pursuing that possibility, to keep it simpler he may need to create some sort of external editor for such modifications.
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[csterg]

There is a tool that does some things: http://www.theword.net/files/misc/twModUtils.7z.
I don't think a generic tool can be created in a logical time frame.
Costas