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 theWord patch for Windows 7 - failure to save user settings 
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Post theWord patch for Windows 7 - failure to save user settings
Problem description
theWord will not save it's setting when shutting down
or
theWord always uses the same layout when it starts, even if you have changed it


Details
A special problem has been reported when installing theWord on Windows 7. The problem affects only Normal installations (compact ones are not affected). The problem occurs because the installer fails to set proper permissions to the c:\ProgramData\The Word folder. This, along with an internal program malfunction (existing up to version 3.1.2) causes the failure to save user settings when exiting.

There are several ways to fix this issue:
    1. A small patch (~100K) has been created that automatically fixes this. You can download it here. Once you download the file, double click on it to execute.

    2. Download and run the Upgrade package. Although you may have the latest version (3.1.2 as of this writing), the fixed installer will make sure to assign proper permissions. Click here to get the upgrade package.

    3. You can manually fix the issue following these steps: open Windows Explorer and navigate to c:\ProgramData. Find the The Word sub-folder and right click on it: from the popup menu select Properties. From the Properties dialog click on Security, Edit..., Add..., write Everyone in the Enter the object names to select text area, click on Check Names then on OK to close the dialog. On the Permission for The Word dialog, at the Permissions for Everyone list, check the Full control -> Allow check box and click OK. Click OK to all other dialogs to close.

Please, report here if you have successfully solved this error,
Costas


Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:50 am
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Post Re: theWord patch for Windows 7 - failure to save user settings
I don't know if this is related or not. I am using Win7 x64 though.

I do a "Compact" installation and use the program's folder:

C:\Program Files (x86)\The Word

Normally, when I go to update to the latest version (choosing Compact), it automatically puts the program's folder that it was already installed into, in the box for where it will be installed to. This was valid even with 3.1.2.

However, when I just went to do the update to 3.1.3, it did not put it in there and so, I "browsed" to the folder that it was already installed to, just wanting to update it to the latest version, but when I did that and then clicked "Next", or "Install", or whatever it says, it said that it cannot install using a Compact install into the program's folder.

Has something changed that doesn't allow this any more? I hope not, since I have too much set up in it to want to start from scratch with it again, setting it up.

Or is it related to this "Win7" issue that you are talking about? I haven't had any problems with it before under Win7, but I didn't know if maybe it's something that started with this latest version.

Thanks! :)


Fri May 14, 2010 1:19 am
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Post Re: theWord patch for Windows 7 - failure to save user settings
I don't understand why my post was moved to this thread. It has nothing to do with a patch and the ProgramData folder, since I do a Compact installation and had no problem with 3.1.2.


Fri May 14, 2010 3:36 am
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Post Re: theWord patch for Windows 7 - failure to save user settings
Hi Dave,
Normally, a compact installation is not allows under program files. There was a bug that would only check this in 32 bit OS. The latest installer fixed that by also checking the correct program files location in 64 bit systems.
But i wonder: how do you have in win7 a compact installation under program files? Normally, win7 will not let any program write there so i wonder how this works,
Costas


Fri May 14, 2010 6:57 am
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Post Re: theWord patch for Windows 7 - failure to save user settings
How would I know? All I know is that it always worked this way. I guess 3.1.2 will be the last update that I do, because I just redid my entire system and I'm not going to start uninstalling and reinstalling things.


Fri May 14, 2010 5:11 pm
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Post Re: theWord patch for Windows 7 - failure to save user settings
One good thing with theWord is that it is very customizable and easy to install. Actually, there is no requirement at all to make it work, you just need the theword.exe, nothing else (and for this flexibility a lot of time has been invested). This makes it VERY easy to customize an installation, and even just make your own.
The compact mode (which is activated if a file with the name 'compact' is in the same directory with theword.exe) allows you to have everything under a single folder and even move it around at will.

The manual explains everything quite well i think: http://www.theword.gr/manual/files_used_by_the_word.htm

Notice that the change was made because the previous allowance was incorrect: it was a bug and i had to fix. I had to make the installer to disallow a compact installation below the Program Files folder!

I can think of many solutions to this problem. I think that there is no reason to reinstall theWord or anything else, you can just move around files and they will just work.
If you need help tell me,
Costas


Sat May 15, 2010 9:09 am
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Post Re: theWord patch for Windows 7 - failure to save user settings
I don't think you understand. Even if I just move files around, I have already installed it and already have registry entries pointing to said installation. So to just "move it" means to leave those registry entries as erroneous entries. And even if I uninstall it, no offense, but there is no such thing as a Windows programmer who isn't lazy when it comes to writing the uninstall process. What I mean is, none of them... not one Windows programmer actually cleans up every registry entry that their program made in the registry when it installed, even though they have to know what will be created, since they write it into the code to create those registry entries. This is why, after every install and uninstall, the users are left with garbage entries in the registry, that programmers just don't seem to care about, even when advised that it has happened. "It won't hurt anything", we are told, which to me, is just another way of saying, "Too bad. I'm too lazy to do it right.". Not only that, but we are also almost always left with folders for the program (under the Documents folder, or wherever) that it put there and that the programmers didn't bother to write into the uninstall routine to remove. (:

Sorry, but this is how I feel about it and I think you'll find is how 99% of the rest of the people feel, whether they have the guts to say it directly to the programmers or not. Me, well, you know me. I'm direct. :) Don't get me wrong, you know I got nuttin' but love for ya! But what I said is true about every Windows programmer. This sort of thing happened only rarely when I ran OS/2 and dealt with OS/2 programmers and I wish I still could run OS/2! :)

Now as for it being a bug, would it have hurt to let us know his up front, so that those of us who did it under Program Files, avoided doing that with a compact installation? Or did you not know about it? It seems that you did, since you said it was a bug and you knew you had to fix it.

And here's the thing, my brother... It wasn't me who put "Program Files" in there. Even the very first time I installed the program, that is what it *defaulted* to for the installation folder. And btw, that is what programs normally default to when you install them, so why would I have even thought that it was a problem?

And a question, please... why is it that I can just move the files anywhere and it will work, but I am not allowed to have them under the "Program Files" folder, when that's where all of my other programs are placed? Why do you consider it to be "a bug" when it puts the program there?

You see, what you must understand, is that the Compact mode makes it easy for me to back up my setup. I don't just back up the config file. Since every single Word file (including every single module) is under "C:\Program Files (x86)\The Word" (the modules are in sub-folders under that), what I do to back up my config, is to just go into that folder and Zip the whole thing up and that's it, I'm done! :) I have the entire program backed up, modules, settings and all!

You see, this way, if I ever put it on a fresh system (like when I put it on my wife's laptop), all I have to do is install it again (I keep the install routine for the version I had at backup time) in Compact mode, uncheck every module and tell it to install. Then, instead of letting it run after installation, I exit the install routine and put the Zip file into the program's folder and unzip it right there, telling it "Yes to All" when it asks if I wish to overwrite the files and then if there's a later version out, I just update it (unchecking modules again) and run the program and that's it, I'm done and I am up and running identical to what I had already in a matter of minutes and don't have to go through any other setup, like installing modules, or running through the options, nor do I have to go through the long and tedious task of setting my menus the way I want (you saw a pic of how I do it, which is like the guy who runs that other site about your program)!

Pretty cool, huh?! :)

And I use the Compact install, because I simply don't want files placed all over the place into different folders. It is *annoying* to me when programs do that! I want everything in one folder and that's what I have now and I just don't understand why I can't continue to have that, where I have it. Why should I have to try to remember where I put the program, because you won't let me put it where every other program on my computer is? Again, I'm sorry, but I just don't understand how this is a bug, when it is normal for every other program. Can you explain this to me, please?

As for the link you gave me, that doesn't explain anything about what you're saying here. At least not on the page it landed on and with all due respect, I'm not going to spend time hunting around to see that I'm hosed as far as newer updates are concerned. What would be the point?

The fact is, I have an install on my system, that has many registry entries, I'm sure and I just redid my system and do not want to create a bunch of leftover, garbage entries and as I said, I simply do not understand why your install would care that I want to put it in the Program Files folder, when the whole concept of the Compact install, is to be able to do that and have everything under one folder.

And going back to the "why didn't you tell us this before" statement, you and I went over my setup, when I had some questions about it and where I could place my modules to keep it all together and you told me that I could just make folders for each type of module if I wanted to right underneath the program's folder, which I showed you was in the "Program Files" folder and I made it clear that I used the Compact install and why (for that purpose), so while believe it or not, I'm not trying to nail you to the cross here, I must ask a bit harshly, why didn't you tell me about this "bug" then, when I had it installed that way, which *was the program's default* for Compact mode (I did not put "Program Files (x86)\The Word" in the box during the install, the program did) and told you about it and asked for your help with it?! Hello?! (:

And before you respond, please, again, bear in mind that just "moving around the files" would still leave me with registry entries pointing to something that no longer exists there and if I run the uninstall first, I have done what I'm trying to avoid, since that would still leave erroneous junk in my registry. I just spent time over four days redoing this system from scratch and getting it just right and not putting in one thing that I knew I didn't absolutely need and would use all the time and now I find out about The Word not wanting to do what it always did and which would be normal for any program to do. (:

Sorry if this was harsh. I am. But you know that I'm not trying to be mean. Just direct.


Sat May 15, 2010 1:50 pm
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Post Re: theWord patch for Windows 7 - failure to save user settings
Quote:
So to just "move it" means to leave those registry entries as erroneous entries.

theWord only uses 2 entries:
1. The installation folder
2. If this is a compact install.
These 2 entries are not even used by the program but from the installer so when you install a new module it knows to propose the proper location by default. You can delete these and you will have no problem.

Quote:
Don't get me wrong, you know I got nuttin' but love for ya!

Don't worry;

Quote:
Now as for it being a bug, would it have hurt to let us know his up front, so that those of us who did it under Program Files, avoided doing that with a compact installation?

Well, i if i knew beforehand i wouldn't have allowed this bug.

Quote:
Even the very first time I installed the program, that is what it *defaulted* to for the installation folder.

Yes, for a normal installation. A compact is not allowed there in WinVista+

Quote:
And btw, that is what programs normally default to when you install them, so why would I have even thought that it was a problem?

And so does theWord in a normal installation.

Quote:
And a question, please... why is it that I can just move the files anywhere and it will work, but I am not allowed to have them under the "Program Files" folder

Because MS changed the rules after Vista: by default, programs are not allowed to write under Program Files without admin privilege. It introduced the 'Virtual Store' as a 'compatibility' layer for older programs. Google for these and you will find more info.

Quote:
the Compact mode makes it easy for me to back up my setup

I agree, just don't put it under program files, Windows do not like it, it's not me.

Quote:
And I use the Compact install, because I simply don't want files placed all over the place into different folders. It is *annoying* to me when programs do that!

I personally agree on that. This is why i have this option there.

Quote:
I want everything in one folder and that's what I have now and I just don't understand why I can't continue to have that, where I have it.

You can, just use a different folder pls.
MS broke this with Vista and afterwards and i really hated that i had to rewrite a lot of stuff in theWord and the installer just to keep with their new standard. But i had to conform in order to be compatible with the official guidelines of the OS. What is for you a small change (another folder) meant months of work for me...

Quote:
Again, I'm sorry, but I just don't understand how this is a bug, when it is normal for every other program. Can you explain this to me, please?

Please, google for UAC and about writing under Program Files.
What you miss also is that theWord actually does write in files (because it saves data). Other program usually don't need to save data in the folder they are installed. It's the nature of the program.

Quote:
The fact is, I have an install on my system, that has many registry entries

No it doesn't. It has 2-4 entries max. You can delete these or leave them as is, nothing will change.

Quote:
And going back to the "why didn't you tell us this before" statement, you and I went over my setup, when I had some questions about it and where I could place my modules to keep it all together and you told me that I could just make folders for each type of module if I wanted to right underneath the program's folder, which I showed you was in the "Program Files" folder and I made it clear that I used the Compact install and why (for that purpose), so while believe it or not, I'm not trying to nail you to the cross here, I must ask a bit harshly, why didn't you tell me about this "bug" then, when I had it installed that way, which *was the program's default* for Compact mode (I did not put "Program Files (x86)\The Word" in the box during the install, the program did) and told you about it and asked for your help with it?! Hello?! (:

Obviously i didn't notice or forgot about that, sorry. It's not big deal really.

Quote:
And before you respond, please, again, bear in mind that just "moving around the files" would still leave me with registry entries pointing to something that no longer exists there and if I run the uninstall first, I have done what I'm trying to avoid, since that would still leave erroneous junk in my registry. I just spent time over four days redoing this system from scratch and getting it just right and not putting in one thing that I knew I didn't absolutely need and would use all the time and now I find out about The Word not wanting to do what it always did and which would be normal for any program to do. (:

Believe me, things are simple here. If you do a compact/USB install you don't even get the registry settings. Nothing! And even if you move the installation, the only problem will be that module installers will point to the wrong directory when suggesting locations. That's all.
Actually, if you delete these 2 registry setting, you have a USB isntall! Voila, that's the difference between a compact and USB install - nothing else, 2 registry entries.

Dno't be afraid to do what i say, if you need help or inside info, i am here to provide.

I specifically wanted to avoid litter registry with theWord in the first place....
Costas


Sat May 15, 2010 2:14 pm
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Post Re: theWord patch for Windows 7 - failure to save user settings
Just FYI, please do not mention a Normal installation again. That is not what I have ever done. I have always used a Compact installation method.

You are right about it sounding easy to move it. :)

But just FYI, you are wrong about it having defaulted to "Program Files\The Word" only if it's a Normal install. It defaulted there for me every time, using a Compact install, which is the only type of install I have ever used.

As for getting registry entries, yes, you do get them with a Compact install as well. I just checked my registry and they are there, but only two, as you said.

But no, the registry entries are not the two you described. One does point to where it is installed, but the other is an uninstall info entry.

Now as for "moving it", where am I supposed to move the program, so that it will let me install future updates? And please bear in mind that I want it to have every single folder for the program under that folder, like I have it now and not spread out across my drive.

And will I have to go into the program's setup/options menu(s) once I move the files, to change anything there?

And please remember, do not write back to me assuming that I already know it. What I mean is, people tend to write skipping steps, assuming that the person should know that already and that it is "common sense". Nothing is common sense in moving around programs and getting them to work, if you haven't moved that specific program before. :)

Also, I assume that once I move the program, that I should then be able to install the update into it?

And can this be done without running the installation, but extracting the .exe? I mean, why have any registry entries, if they're not needed, right? :) But I will be doing it onto my hard drive in my lsptop and not a USB drive.

Also, you never did tell me why it isn't allowed to install under the Program Files folder, when every other program does???

Thanks! :)


Sat May 15, 2010 3:57 pm
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Post Re: theWord patch for Windows 7 - failure to save user settings
P.S.: Just FYI, when I went to download the PDF version of the help file, it said that it is corrupt. I even tried viewing it within the browser and it just sat there, trying to load it and never did. I hink something is wrong with the file. Can you check it please? Thanks! :)


Sat May 15, 2010 4:08 pm
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Post Re: theWord patch for Windows 7 - failure to save user settings
Hi,

Nothing wrong with the pdf download of the manual. I have just downloaded it and it all looks O.K. to me.

Tony

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Sat May 15, 2010 6:25 pm
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Post Re: theWord patch for Windows 7 - failure to save user settings
Odd. I just tried it again and it did come up in the browser this time, but when I right clicked and downloaded it as a file, I still got the same error.

Have you tried downloading it as a file? Or just loading it into the browser to view it?


Sat May 15, 2010 6:32 pm
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Post Re: theWord patch for Windows 7 - failure to save user settings
Okay, never mind. I got the files. It took three tries in a row for some reason. :)

Now I am just waiting on Costas to tell me how to move "The Word" and where to move it to, so that I can update (see above posts) and then I'll be all set. :)

Thanks for trying it out for me! :)


Sat May 15, 2010 6:41 pm
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Post Re: theWord patch for Windows 7 - failure to save user settings
Just as an FYI, the ONLY programs that Windows installs under program files is 64-bit applications (if I understand win 7 correctly). All 32-bit programs (which TW is) install under program files (x86). The OS does not allow 32-bit apps to install in the 64-bit space. Am I not correct?

Darrel


Sat May 15, 2010 8:37 pm
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Post Re: theWord patch for Windows 7 - failure to save user settings
Quote:
But just FYI, you are wrong about it having defaulted to "Program Files\The Word" only if it's a Normal install. It defaulted there for me every time, using a Compact install, which is the only type of install I have ever used.

This is something i will have to check, thanks for letting me know.

Let me exaplain in brief the 3 install modes of theWord:
1. Normal installation: binary under program files, modules under 'common' folder (so all users of the pc can see them), user notes/modules etc under 'personal' folders. Installer creates registry settings for uninstall.
2. Compact installation: everything installed in a single folder: installer creates registry settings for un-install.
3. UFD installation: same as compact but no uninstaller, no registry.

The program does not need the registry to function in either case. The reason that not everything is installed in Program Files is because after windows Vista, programs cannot write there without admin privilege, and of course theWord needs to save data (e.g. personal notes). So, the program binary goes to 'Program Files', and the personal data to the 'personal' folder.

If a compact install was allows in 'Program Files', this would mean that it should save the personal data there, which is forbidden by MS.

Quote:
Now as for "moving it", where am I supposed to move the program, so that it will let me install future updates?

Any folder other than "Program Files" (ok, don't put it under c:\Windows either).

Let me suggest this:
1. Copy the current folder you have under 'Program Files' somewhere else (e.g. c:\theWord).
2. Uninstall the program (the uninstaller will delete all files in Program Files, but you just copy this in step 1). -make sure that you REALLY have everything you need in c:\theWord before uninstalling.
3. Now you have a compact/UFD installation in the c:\theWord.

Now:
1. If you install new modules you need to tell the installer where to put these (no registry setting for the module installer to know where you have it)
2. To uninstall it, just delete this folder. No file whatsoever will be written outside this folder. No registry setting will be added
3. To upgrade just run the installer in UFD mode again (so no registry settings) and point to the c:\theWord folder.

Quote:
Also, I assume that once I move the program, that I should then be able to install the update into it?

Of course.

Quote:
And can this be done without running the installation, but extracting the .exe? I mean, why have any registry entries, if they're not needed, right? :) But I will be doing it onto my hard drive in my lsptop and not a USB drive.

Sorry, no. But when you run the installer in UFD mode it will not create any registry settings; it will not create an uninstaller either.

Quote:
Also, you never did tell me why it isn't allowed to install under the Program Files folder, when every other program does???

I think i answer this above.
Yet let me add: every other program does not give you the option to do a compact install, theWord does!
Every other program does not ask if you want everything in a single folder, theWord does.
When you installed Microsoft Word, did you tried to save your documents under c:\Program Files? give it a try to see what happens :)
So, the answer is that here you have more than what you have with other programs: you have the option to choose a normal install (like every other app) or a 'compact' that let's you have everything in a single folder, but this folder cannot be under c:\Program Files

Costas

P.S.
In 64bit systems, the c:\Program Files and c:\Program Files (x86) are equivalent. What is not allowed in one folder is also not allowed in the other. When i refer above to 'Program Files' i mean both in 64bit systems.


Sat May 15, 2010 9:12 pm
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