Hide Verse numbers and perhaps chapter divisions

Ideas and suggestions about new features
User avatar
jonathangkoehn
Posts: 1004
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:04 pm
Location: Colorado, United States
Contact:

Hide Verse numbers and perhaps chapter divisions

Post by jonathangkoehn »

Perhaps I'm missing something but it would be nice to be able to completely hide verse numbers or adjust their fontsize as to be so small as to be invisible. At present one can make the verse font color the same as the background which is practically invisible except for the space of the verse number.

The reason behind this is to take away the presupposition of the verse system.
Ideally it would be nice to remove chapter divisions as well but that is perhaps harder?
Jonathan Koehn @ https://www.thewordbooks.com
2 Timothy 2:15 “Make every effort to present yourself before God as a proven worker who does not need to be ashamed, teaching the message of truth accurately.” NET2
csterg
Site Admin
Posts: 8618
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:09 pm
Location: Corfu, Greece
Contact:

Re: Hide Verse numbers and perhaps chapter divisions

Post by csterg »

Concerning verses: the size of the text there is also connected with other things, so it's not easy.
Concerning chapters: i would say this is completely impossible, sorry.
RubioTerra
Posts: 724
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:13 pm
Location: Brasília, Brazil

Re: Hide Verse numbers and perhaps chapter divisions

Post by RubioTerra »

And what about the not showing verse numbers option?
Rúbio R. C. Terra
Brasília/DF - Brasil
csterg
Site Admin
Posts: 8618
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:09 pm
Location: Corfu, Greece
Contact:

Re: Hide Verse numbers and perhaps chapter divisions

Post by csterg »

Unfortunately this is also difficult :(
Internally the verse numbers are used as 'anchor' points for all other functions that need to dynamically determine the verse boundaries. Of all the different elements in the Bible view, these are the most important to be there.
Costas
User avatar
jonathangkoehn
Posts: 1004
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:04 pm
Location: Colorado, United States
Contact:

Re: Hide Verse numbers and perhaps chapter divisions

Post by jonathangkoehn »

Not sure if this is a viable work around. If you check "Use different font for non-Biblical text elementes in Bible view:" then change the font to something like "Angsana New" a smaller font. Then change the color of the "Header and verse numbers color" to match the background. It is starting to get there. I wish I could find a smaller fon then "Angsana New" many of the fonts that end with UPC are quite small but not small enough. The bad thing about this is it makes the links smaller for the chapters etc. But it does start to make the verse numbers more invisible.
Jonathan Koehn @ https://www.thewordbooks.com
2 Timothy 2:15 “Make every effort to present yourself before God as a proven worker who does not need to be ashamed, teaching the message of truth accurately.” NET2
Leoram
Posts: 467
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: Hide Verse numbers and perhaps chapter divisions

Post by Leoram »

I understand that what is being discussed here is related to the visual representation of the Bible text on a readable platform, but my question is: why would anyone be interested in getting rid of the chapter and verse representation system of the Bible? On a paper book --it could be; but on a digitized resource specialized for special queries and research, I have my doubts that it could be of any use. Also, if I needed a portion or the whole part of Bible without chapter and verses, I would just produce a version of it in the form of a general module, a topic for every book of the Bible. It is very easy to do that (at least with non-copyrighted material), and that way I would get a text only Bible. However, adding a feature like this would be interesting only if a special kind of experiment is pursued. But I think as Bible module it would be out of the scope of a Bible study program.

For me the chapter and verse system is here to stay. It is more than a casual invention. The fact that all computational (digitized) Bible study applications rely on it in some way or another makes it something of a logical nature (the digital Bible not the Holy Scriptures). Without this system of division (has to be any anyway) it would be extremely difficult to make queries, perform cross references within the different parts of the text, and interconnect passages with their contexts. It it no surprise that it was invented beforehand unconsciously preparing the text for our modern era. I think the mind of today (contrary to those existing one or two hundred years ago) is not ready to digest especially on screen a massive body of unstructured text; and if that were the case, there is the option of a simple digital book reader available everywhere. The Bible included.
Leoram
User avatar
jonathangkoehn
Posts: 1004
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:04 pm
Location: Colorado, United States
Contact:

Re: Hide Verse numbers and perhaps chapter divisions

Post by jonathangkoehn »

Some valid points Leoram,
I'm not suggesting a complete removal. The system of verse and chapters are useful. Especially for references and finding our way around God's Word.
However there is also a use for their not being visible. When we studying the Bible in our native tongue and especially if you get into the Bible languages these divisions can be in the wrong place. In fact at times they divide an author's thought up. Unconsciously or even consciously we began to rely on these divisions instead of letting God's Word speak for itself.
A Bible study program is just the place for this.
Yes it isn't too hard to just put the text into a text only format and copy it over into the text editor of theWORD. This is very similar to what I have been doing. I was just hoping it could be something that could be done right in the text.
Hope you have a great day in the Lord.
Jonathan Koehn @ https://www.thewordbooks.com
2 Timothy 2:15 “Make every effort to present yourself before God as a proven worker who does not need to be ashamed, teaching the message of truth accurately.” NET2
csterg
Site Admin
Posts: 8618
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:09 pm
Location: Corfu, Greece
Contact:

Re: Hide Verse numbers and perhaps chapter divisions

Post by csterg »

I added an experimental option in b1449: adding

Code: Select all

hide.verse.numbers=1
in the config.ini file will hide verse numbers in all Bible text. This is only a test feature (and may stay like this), just to see how it looks. I know there are double-spaces between verses... no expectation please of this becoming a 'normal' feature, just testing for now
Costas
User avatar
jonathangkoehn
Posts: 1004
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:04 pm
Location: Colorado, United States
Contact:

Re: Hide Verse numbers and perhaps chapter divisions

Post by jonathangkoehn »

Thanks Costas for putting a test feature in.
I'm soon going to be outlining James and not having paragraphs or verse numbers will make this process more objective.
I appreciate verse references but at times like this it is nice to turn them off. Eventually it would make even putting Unicals into
theWORD possible for textual criticism research.
Thanks again.
Jonathan Koehn @ https://www.thewordbooks.com
2 Timothy 2:15 “Make every effort to present yourself before God as a proven worker who does not need to be ashamed, teaching the message of truth accurately.” NET2
RubioTerra
Posts: 724
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:13 pm
Location: Brasília, Brazil

Re: Hide Verse numbers and perhaps chapter divisions

Post by RubioTerra »

I don't know about Jonathan, but I think this would be more useful if it could be toggled on/off from inside theWord, just like chapter heading, paragraph mode, etc. A good place would be the bible view gear submenu. Of course there's no need for a shortcut.
hide verse numbers.png
hide verse numbers.png (46.81 KiB) Viewed 5820 times
Rúbio R. C. Terra
Brasília/DF - Brasil
Leoram
Posts: 467
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: Hide Verse numbers and perhaps chapter divisions

Post by Leoram »

Exactly as Rubio Terra has put it.

To me, this is the kind of functionality that could be useful for more than one user, among whom there might be those who would find making changes to config.ini files intimidating.

An ease-to-reach on and off as it is shown in Rubio's attached picture as a place in the UI where it could possibly be inserted might be of help. The distinctive body of users that would find this feature useful, however, could be limited to those that delight themselves in the study of the original languages, and read the uninterrupted passages of Bible in their native tongues to catch the special nuances of the text as Jonathan has highlighted.
Leoram
User avatar
jonathangkoehn
Posts: 1004
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:04 pm
Location: Colorado, United States
Contact:

Re: Hide Verse numbers and perhaps chapter divisions

Post by jonathangkoehn »

If possible this would be a nice feature per Bible.
I'm already using this feature! It would be nice if it could stick around.
Jonathan Koehn @ https://www.thewordbooks.com
2 Timothy 2:15 “Make every effort to present yourself before God as a proven worker who does not need to be ashamed, teaching the message of truth accurately.” NET2
kenfhill84083
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:49 pm

Re: Hide Verse numbers and perhaps chapter divisions

Post by kenfhill84083 »

RubioTerra wrote:this would be more useful if it could be toggled on/off from inside theWord, just like chapter heading, paragraph mode, etc. A good place would be the bible view gear submenu. Of course there's no need for a shortcut.
hide verse numbers.png
I would vote for this. This makes a good "reading" mode, without the verse numbers cluttering the text. You can always tell where you are by looking at the top left of the Bible view or the bottom right of status bar. I agree a toggle would be nice on the gear submenu, with a shortcut key.
csterg
Site Admin
Posts: 8618
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:09 pm
Location: Corfu, Greece
Contact:

Re: Hide Verse numbers and perhaps chapter divisions

Post by csterg »

Is anyone concerned about the double-spacing between verses? Don't you find that distracting?
I am asking because 'fixing' that might be difficult, and not fixing that may make this feature void to start with.
Costas
kenfhill84083
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:49 pm

Re: Hide Verse numbers and perhaps chapter divisions

Post by kenfhill84083 »

csterg wrote:Is anyone concerned about the double-spacing between verses? Don't you find that distracting?
I am asking because 'fixing' that might be difficult, and not fixing that may make this feature void to start with.
Costas
It is mildly distracting but I like that it lets me know, without even-more-distracting verse numbers, where verse separations are.
Post Reply